Over the course of the two semesters that I have taught this course, I have been struck by the enormity of the subjects that comic books, and the fictional superheroes that inhabit them, tackle . Moreover, I have been impressed with the attempts to examine the “big questions” of our time — what it means to be human, freedom, civil rights, individual rights, racism, addiction, family, disability, civil liberties, to name a few. In spite of early (successful) attempts to censor the content of comic books, thereby limiting their scope to only what was acceptable to those who had power over the medium, they have often been little monthly messages about right and wrong on the major social issues confronting our society. In the modern era, we find comic books that delve into subject matter that is, nebulous at best, such as vigilantism. The storylines of The Dark Knight & Punisher more directly handle the double edged nature of the subject, but there are other similarly themed comics & superheroes that do this very same thing. For instance, the fact that Professor Xavier, of the X-Men, has ALWAYS been disabled is an interesting study in dualism. He is physically disabled, yet is one of the most powerful beings on the planet. Matt Murdock, Daredevil, has a visual impairment, yet sees better than those around him with physical sight. What does this say about disability in a society, such as ours, that is overtly focused on the perfect? In terms of gender, men are hyper-masculine and women are hyper-sexualized. They are all super beings, yet, even in this fictional world, the messages of gender, with which the audience is most familiar, are rarely challenged, and most often, reinforced.
There are two major points of discussion that I’d like to see here today. The first deals with the duality of comic books and superheroes in our society. Discuss this duality in terms of the sociological topics that we’ve addressed in class; religion, family, race/ethnicity, class, etc. What is it about comics and superheroes that lets us explore these topics in ways which we find acceptable.? Secondly, I’d like for you to address the importance of these characters as cultural icons. For instance, I find it interesting that Robert Downey, Jr. was chosen to play Tony Stark in the Iron Man film series. Is it coincidence that a talented actor, who spiraled out of control with drug addiction & then redeemed himself, came to play the superhero whose story mimicked his own? But beyond this example, what is it that superheroes mean to society?
Your own comments and thoughts may range much further than what I’ve posted here, and feel free to reference things that you’ve read outside of class, points made in class discussion, or any other observations that you think are relevant. Put ideas out for discussion and let’s see where it takes us.
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One of my favorite things about comic books is their ability to address social issues without offending multitudes of people. I suppose that this ability has been honed over years of finding ways around the sensors. I also think this has a lot to do with the young audience comics have normally attracted. The writers must find inoffensive ways to introduce normally offensive subject material to kids while reassuring parents that the minds of their children are not being corrupted.
i also like what corey said
Corey makes a good point. I agree that comic books have proven useful in introducing social issues to a younger audience through a medium other than the evening news or newspaper. Comic books, in my opinion, also allow people who read them to be more understanding of the differences of others whether that be physically, mentally, or socially. Needless to say, being able to be understanding and accepting of difference is a positive trait.
Why does reading about about these “offensive” issues in a comic book somewhat “lessen the blow” of the material presented? Is it just because it is filled with cool pictures too? Or is it that the author is trying to embed the issue in a way not to offend people. Say perhaps an author was more blunt about the subject that they were trying to get across? Would it still sell as well? Or is it even about the “sales” for the author? Is it about trying to alter perceptions about a subject?
I agree with what your saying, comics are a way for writers to talk about what is really going on in our world (in a nonoffensive way) without being judged for it.
I agree with this because comic books get the point across about major issues in our society and also the readers of comic books have an open mind and accept the issues from the stories being told. I feel comics are a fun way to get the problems out there yet also a good way for people to not judge them.
i think that comic books can address the issues that they do is because the comic book writers can take the problems of today and take them to the extreme and really show just what is wrong with problems like civil liberties and authority problem. comics can also take in issue today and make people think about it from a different perspective which can cause people to see issues differently.
i happen to strongly agree with this comment. scenarios in comics can be taken to the extreme, but i think that another good effect that comes from things like this is that some people may think that these situations are so extreme that they are fictional. but once they start seeing it in culture they can think back to the comic book and have hope that someone or something will rise to be the change. i also think that for some people, reading the comic books opens their eyes right away and they see that they are the person who needs to rise to be the change and to become the hero. comics are an inspiration to many people and not only help people to develop courage in a fearful world, but also, are sometimes the driving force that breaks the inertia. they break the barrier and the awkward moments when people know they have to do something, but dont wanna be the first to step up. this is officially the end of my rant =]
I agree with you about the extreme approach to addressing social issues. Although the issues remain basically the same, the examples are so unrealistic that a critic would look ridiculous if he were to take them too seriously. The messages in comics touch more on the subconscious mind than the concsious.
it sorta forces people to think about controversial issues differently which could ultimately change their minds about that topic.
I like what corey said better about this. Also the writer has to make it so extreme that the readers may not even be able to grasp that the issues going on in the comics are in fact going on in real life.
I think the advantage that comic books also have, is that the characters themselves garner such attention from the readers that everything they do and say is taken into account by the reader. In other words, it is hard to have a superhero hero do or say something without it defining them as a “person”. That makes it much easier for comic book authors to discuss current issues.
That is very true. Through the image that the superheroe has attained over the years, it is almost possible to have an idea of what his/her attitude towards a certain subject may be. When a controversial topic comes up you can not blame Superman for being Superman.
It may be a bit of a lesser reality. Sometimes its easier to choose not to except the harsh views of each of our everyday lives. In the superhero world characters are portrayed as something of an abnormal sense. When in reality our lives may be looked through these heros in general. In the idea that they stand for something more than their powers.
I have noticed this duality in Dr.Manhattan while reading Watchmen. He is this incredible being whose power puts him on par with the gods and he knows what will occur in the future, but he has lost the basic ability to connect with humans. He understands all and yet is completely alone. He knows that Laurie will leave him, but is oddly powerless to stop her.
When trying to influnce humanity one must ask if the end justifies the means. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Sorry about the multiple cliches.
so like is it he can’t stop things from happening or it is if he changes the something in the present to change the future it could have consequences that could be worse ?
Dr. Manhattan does seem pouty despite his ability. I couldn’t imagine being god like, knowing, understanding, being able to control all, but he seems like he has given up on his powers. He stops using them to benefit humankind. Instead he becomes fascinated with the elements and wonders of science and mars. It is surprising to me that he begins to act that way because at one time he was a human himself. Not only that, but he has the ability to love humans early on in the novel.
The fact that Robert Downey Jr. was cast as Ironman, after his struggle with drugs, is important in what it says about what the superheroes symbolize in movies today. It was well known what Downey Jr’s situation had been over the past, and casting him in the role could have been a mistake, but I think the interest that he garnered for the movie from those who knew of only his past, was a positive aspect in the movies success. I think that it is important to also look at those who had knowledge of the similarity between Ironman and Downey Jr’s situations in the past. The similarity between the two seems like it had a positive effect on the popularity of “IronMan”.
It can also be argued that in the recent movie “Superman Returns”, the casting of a relatively young, unknown actor as Clark Kent could have been intentional. Superman was from an alien planet and is relatively new to earth, and the actor portraying him is relatively new to the film industry. This can be considered a tough argument to make, and may not be as convincing as the Ironman casting, but it is still somewhat related.
I like your comment on Superman Returns, that is something that I have never thought of but makes a lot of sense when you consider it
wasen’t Heath Ledger chosen to play the joker for the same reason?
i was really excited about heath playing the joker because he was so perfect for the role. unfotunately he was so perfect that we are officially minus one amazing actor =[ RIP
One thing that I find interesting about Downey Jr. as Iron Man is that fact that Downey Jr. has “recovered” more than once before. This constant struggle with the “dark side” shows that the “evil” is still there. It is just repressed. I feel the same way about Iron Man. Although he is now a do-gooder, his methods and goals are somewhat questionable at times. This asks the question: Is a person inherently “evil” or can a total change take place?
Is’nt it completley dependent on the character?
Once an evil villian, suddendly a hometown saint?
Does the power to be evil ever really go away?
As far as comic books go, I think it is necessary for evil to be incurable. But outside the realm of the comic book world that is a much harder question to answer.
I think Civil War brought up a lot of these issues about the “nature” of good. How sometimes what one person perceives is good, may to another be evil. I think a lot of times we have trouble relating to a superhero that doesn’t struggle with the “inherently evil” side of human nature. That’s sometimes why I have a hard time relating to heroes like Superman, whereas Roarshach, I can identify more easily with.
If there was an actor that really understood the deep dark side of Batman then I personally would be terrified of him. RDJ in my opinion in a drug addicted loser who got lucky in Hollywood. I dont think hes really that talented, he just got popular off of his personality. I also would like to state the fact that if we had “better” examples in Hollywood then we wouldnt have people that thought RDJ was “cool”. Hes not. By “better” I mean somebody that has never been addicted to drugs and then made a career off of doing so. Just my opinion.
I think superheroes are a very important part of our society, especially now that they have been so well embraced by Hollywood. Superheroes are a manifestation of our wishes as a society. We all have been treated unfair in our lives or shown injustice, but we lack the capability to toss on a mask and go seek justice; we need superheroes to do that for us. They are, for the most part, the moral heroes that we can always count on to do the right thing, something our society is lacking.
i think that it is impossible to have a total change. people can act in a what to seem total change but they will alway think the same way and there will be a little bit of their old self in their new self.
Good and evil are more often the result of perception than inherent nature. “Red Son” provided a good example of this, of how horrifying a non-American Superman would be. For the few who naturally have destructively anti-social temperaments, there are still options. What is the difference between a hero and a narcissistic sociopath other than how he might apply himself? Absolutes are possible in the comic book world but not in reality. I’m not advocating us to relativize heroes and villains out of existence, because they can exist in the real world, but their classification as a hero or villain depends on their choice and then our perception of their choice.
I dont think that superheroes are important part of our society so i would have to disagree with the comment saying they are.
I feel that comics are one of the best places to express social and political thought. There is a book called Ex Machina, in which a superhero saved one of the World Trade Center towers from being destroyed, and is then elected mayor of New York City. The book deals with most of the issues we’ve discussed in class. Homosexuality and gender roles, religion, the role of the government (and specifically the military) in our lives, all while telling an engaging superhero story.
Superheroes (and science fiction in general) are some of the best outlets for social analysis. They can work wonderfully as symbols or allegory for things going on in our society. One of the reasons I don’t like Civil War is because it is too blunt, and it misses the opportunity provided by superheroes for subtlety. These opportunities allow superhero comics to have interesting ideas, and the ideas make the storytelling better.
Comic books have a way of making a huge point without offending people. Generally when a topic like sexuality or race comes up people like to ignore it and not talk about it. Because comics are pictures in a series that tell a story the public pays attention and takes everything in without being offended. Also another reason comics are easier to use to discuss harder topics is because the reader always wants to identify with the main characters. Depending on the popularity of the comic these main characters become icons, like Ironman. I personally think that if we found actors that almost entirely identify with these cultural icons then movies would be alot better. Im not saying that Robert Downy Jr. was right in his addiction to drugs but it does add a little more to the character in the movie. Overall Superheros mean alot to society because we value characters that are good and represent good. Everybody in the US knows who Superman is for a reason, and its not just because hes been overabundantly advertised. Its also because he represents the good in society and shows how justice concurs all.
I have always thought that it was interesting that Professor Xavier was handicapped. I guess that I just assumed that this limited his abilities so as to avoid making him all-powerful. As I take a closer look, I see other meanings that are implied. For instance, Prof. X gives a positive example of how handicapped people can have a large influence on the world that surrounds them. Considering some of the stereotypes that are given to the handicapped, this induces the reader’s subconscious to question the validity of these negative stereotypes. I am not saying that this one occurence empowers the handicapped, but I do believe that it has a positive affect on peoples opinions.
I agree with the idea of handicapped indivuals having a great influence on the world. Sometimes though people who are surrounded with people of any type of dissabiitly have a harder time relating or even speaking with those who are handicapped. Only those hanicapped who put their personalities out there are those who are really noticed. Then given the chance to have a great influence.
That is an interesting point to say that Professor Xavier is handicapped to disrupt sweeping generalizations that handicapped individuals are inferior in ways. Also I agree that his disability may have been a way to limit is super abilities. It may also be a way to not only limit him physically but possibly allow for his relationships with other super heroes or mutants to be more believable. If he wasn’t handicapped their relationships may seem like that between god and a human, because of his extreme power.
So is him being hanicapped another way to relate to a different form of audience? Kind of like the idea that even the strongest of superheros have their weeknesses. Could it be set to inspire in such a way?
i think that comic books sorta depict the media as a duality they are the story tellers of these superheroes but also the authority figures. for example in the civil war line the reporters were going to extreme lengths the get the story straight because they know that if they didn’t people could seriously hate someone that they shouldn’t.
The power of the media is unquestionable. Unfortunately their intentions have a tendency to be extremely questionable at times. Their sway over public opinion is immense. There is a thin line between what is good for society and peoples own personal opinions on the matter. I agree with you that reporters tell of the superheroes and influence them at the same time.
When you say that Prof. X is a “handicapped superhero,” thats like a complete oxymoron. Making superheroes handicapped just doesnt sound right. But when you think about it, the creation of handicapped superheroes does inspire younger children to realize that just because they have a disability that it doesnt have to limit their dreams. It tells them that they can make something of themselves no matter what condition they are in whether they want to be a CEO or even the president.
It doesn’t matter if a superhero were to be handicap. It may sound weird but thinking a man can spin in a circle and magically turn into a superhero is pretty weird itself too. If a superhero had a disability, they could easily be strong with another sense and still be a superhero. It allows for diversity and teaches kids diversity is ok. There are male, female, black, and white superheros, so why can’t handicap superheros be seen as normal just like them?
I agree it does inspire people with disabilities. i have a disability and i’ve worked with kids with disabilities and just showing them that there are superheroes with disabilities it gives them hope and they become “superheroes” in there own way